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jammen

You may try getting your science from the scientists rather than right wing blogs.

You come off as a wingnut simply parroting talking points.

By the way, how do you respond to creationist who believe the earth is only 6000 years old and who believe in a literal interpretation of the bible?

Peg

Uh - the information coming out about how scientists manipulated the data and straight out lied isn't from "right wing blogs" - it's from news articles - not to mention the mouths of some of the perpetrators themselves. I take it you aren't aware of this?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/01/leaked-emails-climate-jones-chinese

But one of many news articles on this topic.

Nice idea, however, to totally change the topic! Not sure what on earth creationism has to do with climate change...

Oh - is your intention to demonstrate that some people believe things on faith, irrespective of what the hard data indicates? No argument from me, Jammen. THAT WAS MY POINT.

To anyone who believes that the earth is 6,000 years old, I tell them that they are quite entitled to believe whatever they wish. But - the rest of us are not forced to do so, and I surely do not want laws and policies based upon their religious beliefs - just as I do not when it comes to religiosu beliefs about global warming.

Thank you for helping me clarify exactly what is happening when it comes to climate change and rigid, non-scientific belief.

John Pepple

And you, jammen, might try asking why you believe these scientists. The usual answer given is peer review. And why would you trust peer review? Because those same scientists say it is reliable.

Aside from the fact that this isn't too convincing, you're also listening to those on the top only. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'm someone at the bottom and I say peer review is not especially reliable. That puts those who say both that they want to listen to people at the bottom and that they trust peer review in a difficult spot.

jammen

Peg, I used the creationist argument to illustrate how futile it is to reason with someone who relies upon faith not logic.

The evidence of global warming is irrefutable. Yet there are those who will deny the facts to rely upon their "faith". While you are free to deny what 97% of the world's climate scientists agree upon, it does place you in the same catagory as "flat earthers", "biblical literalists" and other nuts.

Here is a link to Wikipedia if you are interested in facts not faith.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_consensus

Peg

"The evidence of global warming is irrefutable"? Wow. A clear demonstration of how "futileit is to reason with someone who reliesupon faith not logic."

Read the actual piece in Wikipedia you sent out to me! It highlights that there is dissent among scientists ... and that it is PUBLISHED scientists who have this high degree of "certainty" - not scientists at all. Ever think that the published ones are the one getting the cash...... and thus have an interest in perpetuating the myths?

Plus, it seems this Wikipedia has not been updated. Virtually nothing about the scams that have been uncovered.

It may be that some still think global warming is currently happening. Until, however, all the lies and dissembling and altered "data" is gone through, however, we really won't know. And, of course, that man is responsible for it even IF it is true is a wholly other story.

Not to worry, however. I do not expect you to admit any of this. True believers never do....

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Religious knowledge, according to religious practitioners, may be gained from religious leaders, sacred texts(scriptures), and/or personal revelation. Some religions view such knowledge as unlimited in scope and suitable to answer any question; others see religious knowledge as playing a more restricted role, often as a complement to knowledge gained through physical observation. Some religious people maintain that religious knowledge obtained in this way is absolute and infallible(religious cosmology).

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